the air. no more special master in the documents case. mr. erenberg, who is a dedicated veteran lawyer, you heard him say, he might expect charges in this case. i will remind everyone, no charges have yet been filed in the documents case. the special counsel is over seeing it. there have been questions whether lawyers or anyone else has misled the government. he's presumed innocent, but there's a lot of smoke around what the doj calls stolen top secret documents. appreciate you spending time with us. we had a pocked show including the breakdown of american capitalism. you can find me online at ari melber. if there is a song about policy, law, history that you think we should break down, tell me at ari melber. it could be dylan, bob marley, rolling stones. tell me your thoughts or nominations for other breakdowns and "the reidout" is up next.

tonight on "the reidout" -- >> in the case of reverend warnock's opponent, there is very little evidence that he has taken any interest, bothered to learn anything about, or displayed any kind of inclination towards public service or volunteer work or helping people in any way. >> you know who that was. that was former president barack obama laying into herschel walker just before the midterms, and tonight, obama is back, making closer arguments for warnock in georgia's senate runoff. plus, late today, another major legal setback for donald trump. this time involving those classified documents that he stole and stashed at highly secure mar-a-lago. where just anyone might end up sitting next to you at your dinner table. >> also tonight, trump, kanye, and elon. republicans who lead the house judiciary committee tweeted their support for all three,

declaring this is who republicans really are. before quietly deleting it 56 days later. >> we begin the "the reidout" tonight with the final push in georgia. president obama is in atlanta, making a final pitch for democratic senator raphael warnock, with just a few days of voting left to go until runoff election day. while the biggest star in the democratic party makes the case for warnock, here is some of republican herschel walker's closing arguments. >> guys, i'm 220 pounds of twisting steel and sex appeal. >> all the work, working around your house. they can get in, but you know what, they get in, it will be hard to get out because i have a dog. where is my dog? >> i know men shouldn't be in women's sports. you don't want herschel walker competing against your daughter? >> closing hard on transgender athletes because as republican strategists told axio, his

background gives him credibility on the issue, as opposed to the other issues he has zero credibility to discuss, like abortion, which he opposes, except when it comes apparently to his former partners since two allege he paid for their abortions. >> now, another former partner of walker's has come forward to the daily beast with claims about domestic violence. the woman who dated walker for five years in the urbly 2000s is the first woman to go on the record publicly with accusations. she provided the daily beast with photo evidence of her with walker. according to her account, in 2005, after she caught walker with another woman, he grew enraged, put his hands on her chest and neck, and swung his fist at her. she said, i thought he was going to beat me. and she fled. she's one of five former walker partners to come forward to tell horror stories about him to the daily beast about what they call a habit of lying and infidelity. nbc news has not independently

confirmed the account and reached out to herschel walker's campaign for a response. while we're waiting, herschel, i will be in georgia on monday. if you want to discuss this and all the other allegations made against you and give your side of the story, "the reidout" team and i would love for you to show up for that debate that you asked for me, and we're going to keep calling you and calling your team and hopefully eventually we'll get a response. in the meantime, this new report is more evidence of why it just feels so shocking not just to me but to a lot of people that republicans like georgia governor brian kemp and senators lindsey graham and others continues to put their own reputations and the dignity of the state of georgia and the united states senate on the line to argue that herschel walker would be a better senator than the incumbent raphael warnock. i would real a love to hear the affirmative case for why herschel walker should be a snorx from him or them. there's one georgia republican who managed to take the most feckless stance possible.

lieutenant governor jeff duncan says he showed up to vote. stood in line for however long, lines are long in georgia by design, and then decided he couldn't vote for either walker or warnock so he left without voting at all. of course, georgia republicans are hoping other voters will fall in line like this voter nbc's vaughn hillyard spoke to this week. >> i voted for herschel. i'm a republican. i own my own business. that's how i voted that way. >> did you vote for herschel in the general election too? >> yes. >> he's going to have to make up some ground. >> he's going to lose, in all probability. mr. warnock is a wonderful individual. and i fully expect that he will win. >> joining me now is stuart stevens, senior adviser for the lincoln project, and don callaway, democratic strategist and founder of the national voter protection action fund. thank you for being here. i'm going to go to you stuart first because you have the

disadvantage of not being in the studio. i genuinely do want to know what the affirmative case for herschel walker is. i haven't heard anyone make it. i have heard a lot of the case against him. there's an ad running right now that just talks about the violence, you know, beating up his former partners, the abortions he paid for when he says he's against abortion. everyone understands the negative case, why he shouldn't be one. have you heard any republicans make a case for why he should be a senator? >> well, you know, the case was that the republicans needed a majority and he was essential to that. which, you know, what happened on election day was that whole argument got shot to hell because democrats went ahead and took the senate. the only reason you would vote for herschel walker is out of some sort of loyalty to republicans. and look, you have a lieutenant governor who's a republican and he can't even vote for him in georgia. it really goes to a larger issue in the republican party that

haunted them in this last election. there is no agenda right now for the republican party. i mean, you have this kind of bathrooms and bedrooms agenda that really just is not motivating people. you have desantis out there sort of kidnapping illegal people here applying for asylum, saying he's going to get votes for it. there is no coherent governing conservative philosophy now that is drawing people to the republican party. >> you know, don, look, i am hearing anecdotally, black voters are turning out in just huge numbers. i mean, the numbers are huge. in turnout in general has been -- i can anticipate how a lot of black voters are going to vote, because i think it's a matter of pride at this point. a matter of not wanting to be humiliated by herschel walker for six years. i think the toss-up for me is that question that we just, you know, heard stuart talk about, is for republican voters, for white voters and the majority of

white voters in america are republicans, is it a matter of state pride to have a decent man in that can actually do a whole sentence coherently, or do they not care? so that's where i don't have clarity. >> i think that in today's modern governing party, the animating principle is white supremacy. and to the extent that you have to elect a herschel walker to achieve that, and to the extent he says we're not racist, we're voting for herschel. that's a real talking point in these people's minds. that's the animating principle and worth having an embarrassment like walker if it gives you control of the senate, if it takes away warnock, takes him out of the democratic caucus as apodesed to empowering him for a six-year term. bottom line up front, i want to put this out there for your viewers. raphael warnock is going to win the case. the warriors are reporting to you and me, like we're in community with the people who are doing that work and who have

dirt under their nails. raphael warnock is going to win the race. that's a practical matter. another interesting practicate political element is jeff duncan made a political move. he sees the early voting, municipality by municipallity to know that warnock is going to win. he's deciding maybe i can be the guy who leads us out of this trump sludge here in georgia, but that's not by any means a courageous stance. it's a political stance knowing he can be the leader of the georgia republican party after brian kemp. but herschel walker is going to lose and we can talk philosophically in the coming weeks about why these deeply unserious people have anywhere near a heartbeat chance of being in american leadership. >> this is three for my fabulous director, downtown sterling brown. this is what herschel walker said back in 2020 about reparations to blaze tv, which is another one of these

right-wing online networks. here he is. >> said, have anyone thought about paying the white people that died in the civil war that freed them from slavery? i said, oh, geez, they're not going to want to talk about that. she thought of that, i said, mom, you're right. everyone that's coming in talking about the reparations wasn't even around 150 years ago. >> you know, stuart, it occurs to me that part of the appeal of walker is that he presents a comfortable version of black men that is a controllable kind of throwback version that says, i too want to make sure that the real victims, which is white americans, are the ones who get the reparations. like that's what he literally said. he takes the that war. i feel like my question is how many people are clinging to that version, you know, and how many

people are willing to wake up from it? and georgia always felt like a modern leaning state that says maybe we don't want that, but i just don't know. >> you know, this is really a fascinating question because is there really anybody in america that thinks that the republican party would have gone out and gotten herschel walker if the democratic senator was not an african american? and it really goes at sort of the hollowness of the appeal and the failure of the republican party ever since goldwater to appeal to african american voters in any large numbers. they think the only reason they're voting for warnock is because he's african american so if we get an african american, it's going to be the same and they're going to vote for our guy in large numbers because only thing they care about is electing an african american. having been inside the republican party, i have been in those meetings. and there is a terrible misunderstanding about this that really haunts the republican party. and they have never done the work that needs to be done to ask and tell us why is it that 90 plus percent of african

americans dont vote for republicans. >> including most black men. i know they want to say that's not true, but it is true. let me play the kind of prototype for what democrats look for in a black candidate. here's president obama. he's live right now. >> the character, the track record of service that would justify him representing georgia in the united states senate. now, if you had forgotten what i said the last time, it's okay because you just have to wait a minute. he reminds me every time he opens his mouth. i mean, every day. every day, he comes up with something. every day. since the last time i was here,

since the last time i was here, mr. walker has been talking about issues that are of great importance to the people of georgia. like whether it's better to be a vampire or a werewolf. this is a debate that i must confess i once had myself. when i was 7. then i grew up. in case you're wondering, by the way, mr. walker decided he wanted to be a werewolf. which is great as far as i'm concerned, he can be anything he wants to be except for a united states senator.

since the last time i was here, apparently, he also claimed that he used to let me beat him at basketball. but then he admitted that we have never actually met. so i guess this was more of an imaginary whooping that i laid on him. now, listen. this would be funny if he weren't running for senate. we all know some folks in our lives who we don't wish them ill will. they say crazy stuff, we're like, well, you know, uncle joe, you know what happened to him. you know. it's okay. they're part of the family. but you don't give them serious

responsibilities. when you spend more time thinking about horror movie fantasies than you do thinking about the people you want to represent, that says something about your priorities. when again and again you serve up bald faced lies, just make stuff up, that says something about the kind of person you are. and the kind of leader you would be if you were in the united states senate. so georgia, look, i'm not telling you something you don't know. you deserve a senator you can be proud of. somebody who will talk straight to you, somebody who will fight for you, somebody who will garner respect in washington, somebody like reverend warnock, who has been doing it responsibly and conscientiously

and effectively. not just in the senate, not just in the last few years, but his entire adult life. so that's why you need to get out and vote. that's why you can't let up. because change doesn't happen in one election. it doesn't even happen in two elections. it doesn't happen in five elections. change only happens if you keep organizing, keep voting, keep mobilizing, keep educating, keep speaking up, keep working hard to make change happen. imagine looking back in history, right after the emancipation proclamation, imagine if all the abolitionists and the civil

rights activists had, oh, everything's going to be okay now. let's go home. imagine if after some women, not all women, but some women got the right to vote, organizersed, oh, all right. i got mine. we're all equal now. our work is done here. imagine where we would be. if we want real progress, if we want lasting progress, we can't be satisfied with one victory because victories are always incomplete. history doesn't just move in a straight line. it moves sideways, sometimes it moves backwards. when we're not vigilant and when we're not working. so we can't allow ourselves to get tired. we need sustained effort. and by the way, not just on election day but every day in

between. >> that is president barack obama, don't throw anything at your tv because i'm coming back because we have to get to a commercial break. but i want to come back to you, don. that is the black excellence that democrats expect and that's why black folks vote for democrats. if republicans want to answer the question, that's the answer. right? gary chambers in louisiana, chris jones is a literal rocket scientist who ran, mandela barnes, who was the lieutenant governor. the expectations met among black folks, stacey abrams, that's why black folks vote for democrats. >> you know, for a long time now, both parties have ceded some wing of their nomination process to celebrity. and some of that has to do with fund-raising. some has to do with tell janayty, if it's a word, but the difference is on the democratic side, even in a universe where politics is in the realm of society, on the democratic side,

we tend to nominate qualified and competent people. there's no evidence that's the case on the republican side from everything from president with donald trump, if you notice that diatribe about werewolves and vampires was similar to his comparison at the correspondents dinner with donald trump making decisions who to fire, ed baigly jr. or lil' jon, because these are a deeply unqualified universe of people that came as a residual effect of the donald trump years. it's more indicative of the idea the republican party would rather give the reins of thuamerican experiment to these unqualified deeply flawed characters rather than let everyone play equally. i don't want to get too philosophical. i'm a political practitioner, but there's a philosophy that guides what we do in reaching out to voters, and the philosophical right here is one half of the american experiment would rather burn it down than live in a universe where you and i and barack obama get to participate freely in our

multicultural democracy. and that's really the moment that we're going to have to think about far beyond tuesday when, by the way, senator reverend raphael warnock is going to win, and we can all breathe easy about the idea of not having to rely on sinema or manchin. >> when you respect your voters, you take them seriously, you give them barack obama. when you don't, on the other side, you give them dr. oz and donald trump and entertainment because you know they're not going to expect policy from you anyway. >> and ted cruz. who is that with a harvard degree, and rand paul, who is that with a doctorate, a doctorate he gave himself. >> hello. well, we lost stuart stevens' audio. thank you, we appreciate you, my friend. don callaway, thank you, my friend. >> coming up next, so much losing. trump loses again in court. this time involving the special master he wanted as he tries to worm and weasel his way out of those stolen documents, that stolen documents predicament. stay with us. nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard.

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we cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so. either approach would be a radical reordering of our case law, limiting the federal court's involvement in criminal investigations. and both would violate bedrock separation of powers limitations. joining me is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst, and joyce, thank you very much. really appreciate you being here. i do have the ruling here, but i also have something even more valuable, which is your post about the ruling. so i have been reading it really as quickly as i can. you make a couple good points i would love you to explain further. one is the question of whether judge cannon even had standing to take the case, and your explanation is that the 11th circuit court said she did not. can you explain? >> yeah, this is really the

basis for this ruling, joy. federal courts are courts of limited jurisdiction. they can only hear cases that fall within their purview. and the 11th circuit says very clearly, judge cannon did not have jurisdiction to hear this case. and there's a very simple reason for it. what happened in this situation was the government executed a search warrant during a criminal investigation. the government does that in a lot of cases, and people who are under investigation can't suddenly interfere and try to kneecap the criminal investigation. but that's what trump did. and judge cannon said he could do this because this was an extraordinary case where she had equitable jurisdiction. and the problem with that ruling is the real point of the 11th circuit's opinion today. they say no, you didn't have equitable jurisdiction because donald trump never suggested that the government violated his rights, that there was some callous disregard for his

constitutional rights that meant you could take this exceptional step of interfering with a criminal investigation. and on that basis, the 11th circuit vacated her order and threw the case out of court. >> so what does that mean in practical terms? does that mean judge dearie goes back to brooklyn or wherever he was, and can trump appeal this again and go back to the supreme court and start this cycle over again? >> so those are exactly the right questions to ask. yes, judge dearie goes back to brooklyn or i suppose he just gives back the documents and stops reviewing them. the 11th circuit says trump is not entitled to any of that. as far as appeals, trump has a couple of options. a litigant can always ask a panel of the 11th circuit to reconsider their opinion. he could do that. it's absolutely pointless in this case. this is a unanimous opinion from the panel. it's what's called a per curiam opinion, all three of the judges jointly issue it.

it is a very strong opinion. one supposes trump could ask the full 11th circuit to reconsider the case. that, too, is unlikely to be availing. the chief judge, bill pryor, is one of the three judges on this panel. his views will carry great weight, and the opinion is very strong. the interesting thing here is, joy, ultimately, this has nothing to do with politics. it's precisely what the 11th circuit says it is. it's about having a rule of law that applies to everyone eke wally, no matter how witch they are, who they are, or even if they're a former president. so trump can even try to appeal this to the supreme court. i just don't think it's going to do him any good at all. >> so far, it seems like his appeals have been about delay. he shopped around for a judge who would come up with this novel theory of law that because he's a former president, he should get this special treatment that no other american would get. is it possible for him to do more of this shopping or as you said, has he kind of reached the end of the line here? as you said, if his theory is

right, any president could break the law because they were president and get all this special treatment and they would be above the law. >> and that is exactly what trump always asks for. you're right, he plays the delay game. he could try to do that here, but the 11th circuit has vacated judge cannon's order. that means the justice department, i suppose now the special counsel, can go full steam ahead. and trump would have to convince a court to stay that. in order for the delay involved in an appeal to mean anything for him. he can appeal, but the justice department is on the job. >> they're actually back to work, and that is bad news for donald. joyce vance, always love it. you give us such great explanations. i always feel like i'm taking a law class with you. so thank you. appreciate you. >> coming up next, president biden is hosting his first state dinner with french president emmanuel macron, renewing their alliance and uniting in their support for ukraine.

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king, but their president is in washington for an official state visit. emmanuel macron and his wife were officially welcomed this morning for the first official state visit of biden's administration. we're moments away from the two preds and the first ladies making their way to the black tie state dinner where the united states tried to bolster -- tries to bolster its gastronomical bona fidies by serving maine lobster. the duo reaffirmed their unflinching support for ukraine. >> putin thinks that he can crush the will of all those who oppose his imperial ambitions. but attacking civilian infrastructure in ukraine, choking off energy to europe, to drive up prices, exacerbating the food crisis, that's hurting very vulnerable people. not just in ukraine but around the world. and he's not going to succeed. >> what is at stake in ukraine

is not just very far from here. in a small country, somewhere in europe, but it's about our values. if we consider we can abandon the country and abandon the full respect of its principles, it means there is no possible stability in this world. >> weirdly, house republicans have chosen this moment to signal to russia that they would be willing to put a stop to u.s. aid to ukraine, just as russia continues to unleash an unrelenting barrage of bombs on ukraine and its energy infrastructure in the dead of winter. joining me now is bobby gauche, editor and foreign policy columnist for bloomberg opinion. i want to start on the -- you know, it is sort of interesting to watch president biden and president macron together, because we had sort of come to rely on kind of the group of four, right, the sort of four amigos with the british prime minister, obviously angela merkel, and you know, these two,

macron and biden. it's now these two, who in many ways do feel like they're steering the kind of europe wing of the free world. what do you make of their partnership? >> well, it's contrast this with when macron came to the u.s. for his previous state visit under donald trump when the two traditional allies could not have been farther apart. there was a certain amount of bonhomme and hand shaking and you remember trump brushed off what he claimed to be was -- never mind. from macron's jacket. but then macron went to congress, spoke to the joint houses, and disagreed with almost everything in the trump foreign policy. this is a very different tone now, between two people who, they're nearly, i mean, macron is nearly half of biden's age, but they get along. there's clearly genuine chemistry between them. you can't hide that.

and they are much more in agreement on important issues around the world, none more important than ukraine. now, the republicans may have different ideas about what they want to do about ukraine. but these two leaders who are, as you point out, sort of two most important leaders right now in the western world, are of one mind about what to do on ukraine. and that will bring a lot of comfort to those people right now in the dark in kyiv, in other towns all over ukraine. and it will give a moment's pause at least to vladimir putin and others in moscow. >> it occurs to me that, you know, the former quad, one of the members of it seems to be a mess. britain can't decide whether it's going to have arguments over whether it thinks its black brits are really british or, you know, they're sending the young royals around to get, you know, bats thrown at them for behaving like ancient royals, behaving in the old sort of way the firm

did. so it does feel like it is falling on france and on the united states. but macron has played good cop to russia where biden has played bad cop. just isolating his tact toward russia, he seems to be trying to be the diplomat with them. that doesn't seem to work with them. they don't seem to understand that language. >> i think he finally is beginning to get that. for a very long time, he tried to play that role of mediator, earlier in the year, towards the beginning of the war, and certainly through the summer, he was encouraging ukraine to negotiate with russia, to come to terms with putin. the implication being you should be prepared to give up some territory in order to end the war. well, now, his tone has changed. i think he's realized from his many, many conversations with putin that putin is not really someone you can negotiate with. so now, macron is saying what biden is saying, which is that it's up to the ukrainians to decide whether they want to negotiate and what those terms will be. our job as the west collectively

is to make sure ukraine continues to be able to hold off the russian invasion, to be able to make advances in reclaiming its territory, and making sure that russia is constantly on the back foot. so if there is some negotiations and ukraine should come to those negotiations in a position of strength. >> indeed, and we're watching the pomp and ceremony as the bidens and the macrons, you saw them emerge down the stairs, pretty resplendent outfits by jill biden and mrs. macron. mrs. macron's outfit is particularly stunning. i have to make some sartorial comments because i feel like i have do it because they look really wonderful. does this mean as much as it used to in your view, bobby, because you know, america and americans tend to put a lot of stock in this kind of ceremony, in this kind of tradition. in the post-trump era, where he kind of broke the idea of tradition and broke the idea of sort of splendor and broke the

idea of the presidency, what do you make of biden's attempt to restore it? >> i think it's very important to restore it, precisely for those reasons, to reclaim the importance of these events. yes, there's a stage management about it. it's all very choreographed, but so what? big stage events are meant to be coria graphed. we're meant to see those gorgeous events, and look how the white house looks with those gorgeous decorations. it's important, not just because of what happened in the trump years, but also, remember, we had two years of covid in which nobody visited the white house, certainly no important international leaders. this is biden's first big state banquet. it's an important moment, and it's an important signal that it is given to france, to the puntative leader of europe at the leader. absolutely it's important. i think the world should see these images and the french should see these images. >> yes, indeed. it definitely has a meaning,

especially since france was the original ally of the americans in trying to break free from great britain. bobby, always great to talk to you. thank you very much. >> up next, kanye, elon, trump. the tweet sent by house republicans. they took it down after 56 days. but why bother? i mean, that is the embodiment of the modern republican party, right? stay with us. kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. ♪ [christmas music] ♪ ♪ ♪ weathertech gift cards have the power to wow everyone on your holiday list. offering a variety of american made products. weathertech! nice! like floorliners... cargo liner... tablet holder... boot tray... cupfone... sink mat...

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well, it only took about 56 days but the republican party finally deleted this tweet. make no mistake, the official political arm of the not so grand old party told us this was their platform, the thing they wanted you to focus on was kanye, elon, trump, essentially announcing these three embodies what modern republicanism is now, and all three are melting down. today, ye, the unwell person formerly known as kanye west, took it to basement level. >> i -- i see, i see good things about hitler also. >> i like hitler. >> y'all really didn't see this coming? mind you, that riveting discussion was on the far right radio show, info wars with another odd ball republicans turned into a central part of the republican party. alex jones was at the capitol ellipse giving rousing speeches for president donald trump leading up to and on january 6th. then there's trump himself, who has and will have no apologies for palling around with the duke

of anti-semitism and white supremacy at mar-a-lago, which leaves elon musk, who is with seemingly single minded determination, returning twitter to a hellscape of disinformation and hate speech to a point where half of the platform's top advertisers have already jumped ship. joining me is ben collins and tara dowdell, president and ceo of the tara dowdell group. ben, i'm old enough to remember what pepe the frog was. it was an awful era, a nazi era on twitter. that is back, and he's tweeting it himself. to the point and the disinformation is so bad that the eu is considering whether it needs to ban twitter inside of the european union. and you know, liberal voices are stating that they're actually getting banned off twitter because alt-right basically far right racist factors are saying take these liberals off, and

elon is doing it. what in the hell is going on over there? >> well, you know, elon is listening to people on the alt-right, guys like andy know, taking direction from them. these are people from the old meme wars. they're the people you were talking about from the 2015-2016, pepe the frog year of meme wars who accrued a lot of power since twitter has changed hands. and they have taken off those accounts you were talking about, chad loader who has been documenting proud boys and militia groups on twitter for years. they were the first to go over the week, and early this morning a couple other twitter accounts from the left were taken down and then reinstated later in the day. but the idea this is it appears to only be that way really for white supremacists. >> it's ironic, tara, that when donald trump decided to listen

to the meme kids, decided to take his campaign to that gutter. he lost macy's, he lost major deals. it actually cost him his business reputation. elon musk seems determined to repeat all of those mistakes. this is not helping him make money with us with this platform. >> joy, you're right. and actually his net worth is down nearly 40%. he's a superrich man. it's not a big hit for him. but it's down 40% because he's scaring people. he's rightfully scaring people. of people should be afraid. he's acting like a white right-wing troll, as a marketing professional, -- don't want to invest their money and companies that are toxic. they don't want to invest their money in companies that are being run by right-wing trolls. that's why they're making these decisions and it's a hot topic for pr professionals, marketing professional, such as myself. our clients are coming to us saying, we don't think we should be advertising on these

platforms, on this platform. we don't think we should be advertising on twitter. i tell them, no, you shouldn't be. you shouldn't be investing your money with a brand that's become a toxic brand. i think that's a big issue for elon musk. he seems to be taking the attack that he'll dig in deeper despite the loss of advertisers. he thought he'd believe them. and that's not working. he's digging in deeper with his rhetoric. at the same time, he's offering these huge incentives to get people to stay. which means he is, despite digging and deeper, feeling the pressure. >> what's interesting, than, during the logo thing that was going on with -- fuentes -- one of the things he said, oh, this guy fuentes is gonna be tooting for my account. it's sort of though they're all holding hands and jumping off the cliff together. they're all losing their brand identities. kanye's desert --

destroyed his -- trump's destroying has. they're doing it together. i'm wondering if there is a sense out there that there's some plan for this. where this ends is not with trump being president again or with kanye west selling sneakers again. it ends with all of them being mutually destroyed. >> yeah, joy, i think we need to stop think of thinking there is a master plan that started here years ago. there's such thing as ali radicalization. it's the radicalization that charted teenagers and incels on the internet, started elon musk and kanye west. kanye west was ranting that -- rank against his ex in the same breath. saying kim kardashian started all this. elon musk, this whole thing started shortly after his divorce from grimes. and then a whole bunch of things happen from there. and the radicalization community, they call it exhaustion of shock, when there

is this external event that comes into peoples eyes, it rattles them that they go back and reconsider everything. they start blaming things, and they start blaming ethnic groups, communities that are not comfortable with. change in society in general. the idea of it -- if you were somehow immune to this. i think it's bananas. we need to start looking at this as, these are people. and they're getting radicalized in the same way that people stormed the capitol, the same way that incels get radicalized. day after day on the internet. >> it's interesting you put it that way. kara, i feel that trump fits in that is. well you have these men who don't have consequence of their lives because the rich. you're able to get away with being bankrupt for, five, six times. they get away, they get a second chance, third chance. and after a while, they're kind of worship to. our society has decided that these men are geniuses. because they're rich. and all of them, you can go

through all of them these are all radicalized rich man, with no consequences that they understand. and suddenly, the chickens are coming home to roost. >> exactly, our society, we award psychopath. we do it all the time. the majority of psychopaths are concentrated in certain feels. ceo is one of those feels where they're disproportionately represented. that's something that is a sickness in american culture. and so, that's what we're seeing here with elon musk. with this behavior. yes, he does believe this. it's quite possible has been radicalized. he's also -- has also disowned him. so, there's been a series of triggering events and his life. and kanye has long suffered from mental illness. which again, people swept under the wrong. the other thing we do, july, that you referenced as we have a stand culture. we're invested in a ceo, when we're invested in a rapper, when we're investing an entertainer, people go hard for

them. and the goal right off the ship with them. but the becomes a tipping point. all three of them have now hit that tipping point. >> welcome to the tipping point. then collins, tara dowdell, thank you very much. we'll be back. we'll be back. (limu squawks) he's a natural. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ announcer: type 2 diabetes? only pay for what you need. discover the power of 3 in the ozempic® tri-zone. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. announcer: ozempic® provides powerful a1c reduction. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes.

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golo has been more sustainable. i can fit it into family life, i can make meals that the whole family will enjoy. >> before we go i wanted to let it just works in everyday life as a mom. you know, we're taking the read out back out on the road again next week. we'll be live in atlanta, georgia, monday night that's the eve of the georgia runoff. the last day of runoff voting is tomorrow. everyone vote, please. we'll have more details to come, hope to see you guys out. they're including you, herschel. i'm coming down, all the local. you might be in texas, i know that's where you really live. but maybe be in georgia for that one time. that's tonight's the reidout. all in with chris hayes starts right now. all in with chris hayes >> toni. a devastating ruling